Talk:New Horizons
So here's what we know. *'Planet:' Secundus, 18 Scorpii (45.7 lightyears from Earth) – 4,156.95 km *'Satellite(s):' Fratris (habitable) – 2,084.52 km *'Date colonized:' 2110 AD (1 NE) *'Project calendar:' New Era (NE) – From the "New Era of Mankind" or the "New Era of Man's History" First things first Let's get started on iron out the details for the project. What we need first is a map, a history for the world, and more or less a background on how, why, and when the colonization of this new planet took place. Also, we will be needing a name. With ACunha's permission, I would very much like to use the "Anama" name he used for his own conworlding project. Any other details regarding the finer aspects of the project can be discussed as we move ahead with the background work. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:54, October 7, 2015 (UTC) : If everyone wants to adopt the name Anama, I don't see problems. But as science uses the Latin language to name things, and we're talking about a planet colonized in the future (not too distant?), I think a Latin name is the most appropriate. Perhaps Secundus, it means The Second, assuming it is the first extrasolar planet colonized and hence the second planet inhabited by humans. - Cunha 20:17, October 7, 2015 (UTC) ::Well, it's a new world with a new history, so we don't have to use Latin for scientific naming. However, I do like Secundus. Makes perfect sense when looking at the meaning behind the name. We'll have to wait for everyone else to give their opinion and get to work on the history of the project as well. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:45, October 7, 2015 (UTC) Star and location The star 18 Scorpii is very similar to our Sun, it's located there is 45.7 light-years, and has 4.2 billion years (in comparison the Sun is 4.5 billion years). Still not found any exoplanet, which gives us the ability to create them at will. An Earth-like planet in the habitable zone (HZ) would have a year of 372 days or so. We could have days with different duration, 28h for example. Our planet could have two or three small moons or even rings like Saturn, but much smaller. We can play with the size, mass and gravity of our planet. What do you think? - Cunha 20:56, October 7, 2015 (UTC) : I like it. The idea of several moons may require some further support given the effect they play on gravity and the people and tides in general. I think sticking to one moon may be the best, though if everyone else would support having more than one moon, then that'll be what happens. Good job on the planet hunting. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:15, October 7, 2015 (UTC) : Whats the possibilities of both a habital planet and moon? -Sunkist- (talk) 00:32, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :: Well, everything in the universe is possible. But I think the moon would have to be big as a planet. The only known moon with atmosphere for us is Saturn's Titan, and has a diameter of 5,150km. Compared the Moon has 3,475km and Earth has 12,756km - Cunha 01:02, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :::: I'm totally with you on that moon part Sunkist. It would add to the story, with colony ships going to a moon and a planet, and then landing on the other for the first time thousands of years later. Imagine the stories told as people looked into the night sky and saw city lights on the world below them, but having no means to communicate with them. That would be an epic tale for the ages. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:23, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :::: When we land, do we lose all of our technology? Why are we sent 1,000 years back in time? I'd find that also interesting, but I could see that those stranded on the moon would have be more secluded, less involved and would be limited on a lot of things. Trade would be very difficult. -Sunkist- (talk) 02:48, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :::::: Well, it generally depends. If both worlds have the same resources, then the limited ability to develop would be moot. I'd like to think that by losing a lot of the technology, that it will give the members the ability to delve a bit more into the background and history of their nations. Personally, I wanted to do a nation with a man who sponsored his colonization project to avoid the UN's anti-cloning and human experimentation programs, and see how a society he built would work in a Bronze Age setting. It could be a bare bones setup with the colonists having to rebuild from scratch due to the technological information they needed either being lost or destroyed in the process of colonization. But it is up to the participents of the project to decide how the history of this (or these) world(s) are developed. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:53, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :::::::: "..avoid the UN's anti-cloning and human experimentation programs."? Who is this man, how does he have so much money to send a spacecraft into space. I mean thats your story and I know you'll figure out all the kinks.. I was thinking we'd be set in contemparary/moderately in the future and we'd RP in that realm of time. -Sunkist- (talk) 05:56, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::Like I said, I'm way ahead of you on the kinks issue. I don't throw this stuff out without knowing what I plan to do about the backstory. Heck, I've got an entire sandbox wiki devoted to brainstorming and organization of my ideas and concepts. So you're in safe hands. As for the later part of your comment, I think that 2050 is a good enough time to begin working on the history of the project. Far enough in the future for the technology to feasibly exist in the realm of plausibility, as well as allowing for certain groups to be permitted to take part in the project (Indonesia and Nigeria are two nations with major economies and industries that can be realistically viewed as members of any international program), and close enough to the current day for there to have not been any overwhelmingly important developments in global history. At least not any that the community haven't agreed upon. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 08:27, October 8, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::I'd have to say, unless humans reach 18 Scorpii within a relatively short period of time from Earth, there will be a loss in knowledge and understanding of contemporary technology, and that the people who do reach to the new planet will have to somewhat reclaim what was lost as a whole. I seriously doubt we'd regress as far as the Bronze Age (unless our planet is severely lacking in resources) but the primary reason many things at first aren't developed is because the passengers who landed will already studied the engineering, physics, chemistry, etc. on the books while on the ship, but never actually applied this knowledge physically. No one will know truly how to build a skyscraper or a nuclear bomb because those things are impractical on a ship, and this fact and lack of experience will probably manifest and compound with each passing generation. It of course, really depends on what type of technology is on ship (nanontechnology for medicine, advanced physics to power the ship, etc.?) [[User:JustinVuong| ]] 12:15, October 8, 2015 (UTC) We need a magical wormhole to take us to this planet, because the distance looks somewhat atrocious. ---Sunkist- (talk) 11:45, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :I agree with Pelicary, I highly doubt we'll be able to achieve technology that'll allow us to reach near-speed-of-the-light speeds, let alone FTL. Even the Proxima/Alpha Centarui system, the closest one to us, is about 4 light years away, which would 100 years to reach at 4% of the speed of light. Secundus, or 18 Scorpii, the one I assume we're choosing, is 45.7 light-years--unless we decide upon having several generations being able to live and sustain humanity on multiple ships for a considerably long, long, long time, I think accessing this system through wormholes will be an appropriate choice. [[User:JustinVuong| ]] 12:15, October 8, 2015 (UTC) I'd rather not regress to a Bronze Age civilisation. I suggest generation ships or ships that carry many people in stasis. --Falloutfan08 ~ Talk ~ \o^o/ 16:14, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :Well, if that is the will of the people then so be it. The issue with wormholes as Justin suggested, is that we'd first have to find a wormhole to use, and hope that it led to our desired destination. However, regarding travel, might I suggest the ? It'll sort out some of the issues we have with moving between stars. We'll just assume that NASA and its foreign counterparts sorted out the who energy thing with the fusion power we're working on in the present day, and that Alcubierre rings large enough for a crew and equipment were built for the ship. We can work from there, but that development would definitely put us past 2025 as a starting date. Just my humble suggestion. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:23, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :I think we should avoid making this too similar to the Elysian Project; some kind of FTL would be useful in that regard. I think wormhole(s) could work. Perhaps humanity didn't originally intend to go specifically to 18 Scorpii; they just discovered a wormhole that happened to lead to 18 Scorpii, leading to that specific system being colonised. An additional advantage of using wormholes or other FTL would be that there could still be some communication between Earth and Secundus, which could have all sorts of interesting consequences for the two worlds. 77topaz (talk) 19:05, October 8, 2015 (UTC) ::The beautiful thing about the Elysian Project is that its origin story worked, so there is no harm in adopting what was good about one project, and adapting it to fit with another. Moving on, we have to figure out what happened to Earth, if it is still inhabited, whether or not we shall kill all life there to move on to Secundus, and the finer details of the project. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 19:32, October 8, 2015 (UTC) If you want any loss of technology, the best way is that the colony ship is a generational ship. The ship that I proposed travel for 18 Scorpii in circa 170 years (cruising speed: 0.25c speed of light). The ship would take 3 or 4 generations, add it to an accident while crossing and the consequential loss of communication with the Earth, also the loss of information due to the partial destruction of the ship's computer, and we will have a situation ripe for survivors lost knowledge, technology and create a new society still on the ship, this new social form can be transplanted for the first colony decades later become an empire, and centuries later, several regions of this "empire" would become independents (and all participants can create their respective countries). - Cunha 21:50, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :I will explain: :In the paper the author says that this kind of ship to reach Alpha Centauri (4.3ly) in 10 years would have to travel in a velocity of 0.43c, but top speed is 0.25c, then it would take about 16 years to reach Alpha Centauri. I extrapolated the calculus and I got about 170 years to reach 18 Scorpii. :How long is a generation? There are people who say it's 25 years, others say it is 30, and some say it is 50. We'll take 50. We would have 3.4 generations! Enough time for it to happen many changes due to problems encountered on the trip. - Cunha 22:11, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :I still don't know if my intentions are clear to you: :1) I suggested 18 Scorpii just because this star has no discovered exoplanet (this gives us the possibility to create them freely), as well as 18 Scorpii be far enough to hinder communication with Earth (either at the time of colonization or centuries later. A dialogue between Secundus and the Earth would last at least 90 years! And also because 18 Scorpii is much like our sun. :2) The idea of using the this ship is that it's large (it has 700 km long, and it takes 100 metric tons payload, but we can increase the payload to 1 million metric tons if we want to, it would increase only 18% in length and fuel, if I'm not mistaken). All about the ship is discussed and explained in the paper. :3) The idea to use a generational ship rather than wormholes, FTL, cryogenic crew or anything like that, it's just to create the situation required so there is a catastrophic event on the ship resulting in the loss of contact with Earth and make the surviving crew to create, by own means, a way to get safely to the, now mythical, planet Secundus. In 170 years --according to the calculations presented above-- are enough time for 3 or 4 generations and drastic changes in both, the journey itself and in the social and cultural level of the crew, including loss of knowledge and technology. - Cunha 00:31, October 9, 2015 (UTC) :That's a fairly similar premise to TEP also. :P 77topaz (talk) 01:08, October 9, 2015 (UTC) :There is one detail that I haven't considered: Relativity! :The 0.25c is a relativistic speed and, according to this site, if we travel in 0.99c, the time for the ship's crew will be less. One day on ship would correspond to 7.09 days on Earth! Adapting to 0.25c, the day on ship correspond to 1.79 days on Earth. That is, 170 years has 62,050 days, if 62,050/1.79... We will have approximately 35 years. For the ship's crew the trip would only last 35 years! :Aaaarrghh... If I think more about these things my head will explode! - Cunha 02:46, October 9, 2015 (UTC) Much of my sci-fi knowledge comes from the realism sci-fi series Battlestar Galactica, I am sure some of you know it. Now, without spoiling anything, at some stage in the show, the Galactica is severely damaged and only has one usage of its very very advanced FTL drive left. It uses it and can't ever use it again, thus they are stranded where they are. So we can adapt that kind of narrative into our story. Say we have been travelling for a long while and the 0.000003% of the population who know how to use FTL drives have either died or the knowledge has been lost (this is something which I have no doubt is very possible). So the humans use it one final time and jump into our new system, 18 Scorpii, and can't use it to go back, nor can they communicate with Earth (if it is still there) because it's simply too far away (or something). I want to caution one thing, though: don't overthink this. I like detail, but if we're going to get overly technical with this project, it may die before we even get started. We shouldn't really worry about whether two moons will screw with the gravity or anything like that. Sure, we can get technical, but if I may make a suggestion - we need to avoid numbers, especially decimal numbers. :P By the way, sorry for my absence. I am pretty busy, so don't mind my short times away too much. -Signed by Warmonkey (Administrator) (talk • • worlds) 14:39, October 11, 2015 (UTC) Discussion on Mibbit I believe we could get rolling if we had a live chat. When would be best for everyone? -Sunkist- (talk) 04:16, October 9, 2015 (UTC) : Sorry I wasn't able to respond. I can't post anything on the stupid mobile view for Wikia. If the discussion took place already then just the results on the talk page. If not, I should be available for the live chat session tomorrow around 10-11am (UTC-6). Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:46, October 9, 2015 (UTC) Timeline for New Horizons Okay, I'm just going to start spit-balling some ideas for the timeline of the New Horizons setting. *Circa 2025: The United Nations World Meteorological Organization shocks the world with the news that Earth's climate has been irreversibly damaged by human development and industrialization. It reports that as a result of the runaway greenhouse gas effects from nations like China, the United States, and India amongst others, burning thousands of metric tons of coal and other fossil fuels, has resulted in the temperature of the planet increasing to a point where the ice caps will melt, shifting climate change into an irreversible course that will ultimately render the Earth uninhabitable in the next 30-40 years at the least. *2027: In the two years following the devastating news from the WMO, the world's most powerful and advanced nations pool their resources together to begin work on the New Earth Colonization (or Haven) Project, with the aim of searching for and colonizing an earth-like world within the next 10-20 years. Developments of search technologies like carbon-fiber production, fusion power, 3D printing, and self-sustainable farming, are fast-tracked with the aim of shortening the project's deadline. The best and brightest members of the human species are gathered together to begin brainstorming new ideas for the project, along with socio-political, economic, and even religious ideas that will help the colonies that will save mankind in the future. *2028: The process of selecting members for the colonization project begins. Given the lack of faster-than-light travel capabilities, only a select few are nominated for the project, which will demand that they spend years and even decades aboard a small spaceship. Because of the complications of the selection processes, many individuals are chosen ad hoc by corrupt governments willing to nominate individuals for exorbitant bribes, or incredibly wealthy individuals who instead opt to fund their own programs with the aim of escaping the doomed planet. *2029: All lowland regions on Earth begin to suffer the early effects of flooding as the world's ice caps begin to melt and disappear, raising the sea level in many regions such as the Netherlands and Bangladesh, where thousands drown to death. Strict security measures in the United States, Europe, China, and Japan prevent hundreds of thousands of refugees from entering their borders, leading to increased racial and ethnic tensions, as well as a rise in nationalistic fervor. *2030: As the sea level raises and the world begins to heat up, thousands of natural disasters begin to erupt all across the planet, with tornados in the United States Central Plains appearing more frequently, and hurricanes, tsunamis, and cyclones becoming far more destructive in terms of human life and property. A religious zeal swepts across many regions, as many see the increase in natural disasters as a sign of God's anger with mankind and its wayward actions, sparking theist riots in the streets of major cities. *2031: Martial law begins to kick in as riots, refugees, and economic collapse effect dozens of nations. The New Earth Colonization Project makes some headway with the discovery of a habitable earth-like world orbiting the star 18 Scorpii, a main sequence star not unlike Earth's sun. *2032: Construction on the colony ships begins apace, as most funds from the world's major governments are directed to the colonization project as the state of the world and humanity grows more dire and more apparent with each passing year. *2033: n/a *2034: n/a *2035: n/a *2036: n/a *2037: An increased panic begins to set in as the colony ships completion date comes and goes. As natural disasters continue to increase, the price of basic goods in many parts of the world skyrockets, leading to civil war in some countries such as China. Little of North Korea's handling of the global crisis is known, but reports from within the country show that the Kim family remains in firm control of the country. *2038: A scientific breakthrough of historical scale is made when physicists from the European Union develop a subliminal engine capable of propelling a spaceship to 15% the speed of light without violating Einstein's Theory of Relativity. The development would allow a sleeper ship to move between Sol and 18 Scopii in no more than 57 years, giving hope to those seeking refuge away from Earth. However, to power such an engine requires vast amounts of energy, energy only feasibly generated from a fusion power plant, of which few exist. The colony ships under construction undergo vast retooling to prepare them for refitting with fusion power generators to power the new subliminal engines, wasting more precious time. *2039: The development of cryostasis technology to preserve a living human for interstellar transport begins, with early test trials resulting in the deaths of dozens of subjects. Because of the slow speed in which technological developments have been made with regards to the New Earth Colonization Project, many candidates once suited to the mission have been discarded and replaced as they become unsuitable for the new technologies they need to use, leading to public outrage, further fueling crime and riots in the streets. *2040: A faulty control mechanism for a fusion generator under production in Switzerland breakdown, releasing huge amounts of lethal radiation into the factory killing hundreds of workers. The failure of the generator's fail-safe systems is quickly covered up by the European Union, and the deaths attributed to an impromptu explosion created by the government, and blamed on "criminal neglect of the maintenance of the facility's natural gas supply". No one suspects the failure of the fusion generator itself, but many question the "anomalous amounts of radiation" at the former location of the factory. *2041: Using stolen technology and blueprints of the colony ship, subliminal drives, and fusion generators, the North Koreans launch their own colony ship, the Byeolttongbyeol-1, or "Shooting Star-1", before any of the other colony ships developed by the rest of the world. The shoddy, hastily-built North Korean vessel explodes spectacularly not long after passing by the moon, though not before critical failure of the bulk of the ship's systems, leading to countless deaths long before the explosion. No response from the North Korean government is forthcoming about the incident. *2042: n/a *2043: n/a *2044: n/a *2045: n/a *2046: n/a *2047: n/a *2048: n/a *2049: n/a *2050: n/a Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:57, October 9, 2015 (UTC) :Generally good, but a little contracted methinks. I dont think the world is going to fall apart in the next 20 years. Woogers - talk ( ) 21:37, October 10, 2015 (UTC) ::Maybe, but the purpose is to create a backstory close enough to the modern day with as few cultural and political changes that will permit the contributors to take part in the project with their ideas as they originally plan to have them. The political unrest throughout the globe helps to more or less freeze the political and cultural developments of the globe in place. However, if you wish add to the timeline, please go ahead. You did propose the idea to begin with. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:58, October 10, 2015 (UTC) : Good draft. I don't have any immediate objections to it. I will let you know if something comes up! -Signed by Warmonkey (Administrator) (talk • • worlds) 14:39, October 11, 2015 (UTC) ::Awesome. I'll continue working on the timeline. Feel free to contribute if you like. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 14:44, October 11, 2015 (UTC) : I remembered something I forgot to say: we shouldn't be fretting about the Bronze Age thing. The only thing that really matters is where are we in the current timeline. If we say that humanity regressed to the Bronze Age it doesn't mean we have to develop historical societies immediately. We can develop our current societies and work backward if that's preferable. : In general, while I don't object to having some futurist elements, I don't think it would be wise for us to be at some stage of development where technology has simply taken away all the issues we face in real life. I am someone who likes keeping stuff in line with current-day happenings. If we are going for very advanced, though, then we need to set the guidelines and limitations. I remember in Future World there was always a pissing contest about who can dream up the most rad techno innovation. UP had drone armies, I had clones and at the end I even think helicarriers were a thing. I'd say we should avoid that. (Note that I have made other comments throughout this thread which don't necessarily show up in the activity feed.) -Signed by Warmonkey (Administrator) (talk • • worlds) 23:22, October 12, 2015 (UTC) Map and setting Alright, so I think there's a consensus that we'll all be working on one country. (I may have misread this - just let me know.) So I am assuming the next step is to decide two important things: 1. How will we go about the map? 2. Will there be other NPC countries? In the case of 1., we should consider if we're all going to be involved in one small country in the new world or a large superstate. We should get a draft map going for this in any case. Personally, I'd like us to work on a medium sized nation. In the case of 2., it's not really a terrible idea to leave other countries in the NPC's hands. We can build our first country and if that's successful move to other countries to complete them. I don't want us to make the mistake of giving every player a country because already this will then turn into a competition rather than a joint project. We should stick together in my opinion. (Note that I have made other comments throughout this thread which don't necessarily show up in the activity feed.) -Signed by Warmonkey (Administrator) (talk • • worlds) 23:22, October 12, 2015 (UTC) I would personally like to work on a medium sized country also. I like the idea of having NPC countries, and I agree with your sentiment about completing them Super. Falloutfan08 ~ Talk ~ \o^o/ 09:38, October 13, 2015 (UTC) I'll upload some maps for the project, you all decide which one you want to use, and I'll make a proper map out of it. As for the question, I'd personally like to work on my own nation (for reasons). But I have no issue with helping work on a single state first if that was the intention. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 15:57, October 13, 2015 (UTC) Secundus Map 1.png|Map 1 Secundus Map 2.png|Map 2 Secundus Map 3.png|Map 3 Secundus Map 4.png|Map 4 Secundus Map 5.png|Map 5 Secundus Map 6.png|Map 6 Secundus Map 7.png|Map 7 Secundus Map 8.png|Map 8 Which map do you want for Secundus? Map 1 Map 2 Map 3 Map 4 Map 6 Map 7 Map 8 I've added all of the maps. Now all you need to do is vote. The little lines on the map are rivers if you were wondering. Unless you already knew that... Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 16:32, October 13, 2015 (UTC) Countries Now, how would countries be created or divided up? HORTON11: • 17:46, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Well, once a map is chosen (I'll cast the tie breaker), I'll break the map up into chunks of land, and let everyone decide if they like the world borders as they are, or if they'd like for me to make some alterations. Since we want some kind of balance, there will only be a set number of large nations, medium nations, and small nations. Microstates may be added as per request, but we don't want a ton of superpowers on the map save those which the community has sanctioned. Also, a history for the planet may decide how the nations are established on the map. Players may want to create regional histories, such as those tying the Arabs and Slavs (two pan-ethnic groups) together back on Earth. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:52, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Do you think the maps feature could/would be used in the project? HORTON11: • 18:00, October 14, 2015 (UTC) I never utilized that feature. It'll certainly be interesting to try it out. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:01, October 14, 2015 (UTC) It would work best with cities (such as this). HORTON11: • 18:06, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Huh. That's what that does. Nice. It seems perfect for city-states and small countries as well. I could certainly use it for a ton of stuff I have planned. And I'm sure Lovia could use it as well. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:08, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Lovia has no use for that, but something liek Cettatie which is a city state, it is perfect. And even just for mapping individual cities within a country, it works fine. Of course, I can now make marger and more detailed maps, so should work nicer. HORTON11: • 18:13, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Here's the map for Secundus. It has all of the nations for the planet located within the red boundaries. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 18:39, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Hi, just so we're clear, I signed up to help with a project on one country which appeared to be the decision reached on the blog post. Unfortunately I will be unable to commit to a multi-nation project. -Signed by Warmonkey (Administrator) (talk • • worlds) 19:08, October 14, 2015 (UTC) It's a shame. I thought you'd be sticking around. Well, you will be missed. :( Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 20:08, October 14, 2015 (UTC) I thought the whole point of this project was to try and work on one country and try to avoid the infighting/incompatibilities that marred Future World, Atlion etc. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:45, October 14, 2015 (UTC) I agree with SWM, this was not what it was supposed to be. I'm not sticking around if this turns into a multinational project. -Sunkist- (talk) 22:56, October 14, 2015 (UTC) hortonlândia Alright, this is the land I am claiming. HORTON11: • 18:54, October 14, 2015 (UTC) Cunha's Land Provisional name: Latinamerican Territory of Pontal - Cunha 22:43, October 14, 2015 (UTC)